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Post by MaryAnn Layton on Jan 8, 2010 10:36:36 GMT -5
NEWS FLASH! This just in...
Michael Jackson Death Investigation Complete Posted Jan 8th 2010 8:30AM by TMZ Staff
The LAPD investigation into Michael Jackson's death has been completed and the case will go to the D.A. within weeks, law enforcement sources tell TMZ ... and, we're told, it's all but certain Dr. Conrad Murray will be criminally charged in MJ's death.
Our sources say detectives completed their investigation late last month and the case will be formally presented to the Los Angeles County District Attorney as soon as scheduling allows. Turns out ... the presentation will draw quite the crowd. A number of members of the LAPD and the D.A.'s office will be present, and finding a date when everyone can show is a little tricky ... but we're told it will happen in a matter of weeks.
One very informed source says the LAPD investigation was "exhaustive" and "extremely thorough" and the D.A. has enough evidence to pull the trigger on a criminal case against Dr. Murray. That said, we're told the case is complicated, in part because Dr. Murray did not break any laws in administering Propofol to Jackson.
One law enforcement source connected with the case notes the D.A. has been actively working with the LAPD and it's all but certain the case will be filed. As for the charge -- a decision has not been made, but our sources say the likelihood is involuntary manslaughter, which requires a showing of gross negligence.
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Post by Norma on Jan 8, 2010 21:06:17 GMT -5
How could they say that Dr. MURder did not break any laws in administering Propofol to Mike...The man did not have any equipment there to keep him alive...Isn't that neglect??? Manslaughter in Calif. is only 2 to 4 yrs in prison... This man killed Mike... He was a Dr. that Mike trusted... HE TRUSTED HIM... Murray found Mike at 11:00 and didn't call 911 till 12:21...After making phone calls after phone calls after 47 mins he finally gets around to running down stairs to find someone to help him... UNBELIEVABLE... That isn't NEGLECT???
I know that NOTHING will bring Mike back... But he deserves JUSTICE... Not a slap on the wrist... The media is going to have a field day with all this... It is going to be HEARTBREAKING... If the media starts bad mouthing Mike it is going to turn ugly... After 7 months Mike and his family and fans deserve answers and JUSTICE NOW...
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Post by ida on Jan 9, 2010 4:45:11 GMT -5
Norma: Dr. MURder...LOL, thanks for making me laugh! But to the point, I don't know if it is right to say that he found Michael at that time and then he did THAT, and then he called after THAT time, and so on, and so on. The media have said so many different things, and it's impossible to know the truth what REALLY happened the hours around his death. I might be wrong, since I haven't paid attention to the drama around Murray. His death cause and what that happened around Michael's death isn't something I care for. It makes me really sad to hear about words like propofol, kill, obduction, 911, Murray etc. Pictures about Michael lying in his bed desperately trying to sleep are popping up in my mind. What do we get out of reading about Murray and how Michael died? We won't get Michael back, it's not the way to heal our grief, and it doesn't make justice for Michael either. Just my view
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Post by MaryAnn Layton on Jan 9, 2010 10:05:56 GMT -5
I have come to terms with the way Michael died. Yes it was a tragedy, but it was his time. Michael even said so. I am just so thankful that he went peacefully, as this is how he wanted to go.
But I'm still looking forward to justice! Dr. Murray deserves to be punished for his crime... it's what everyone who loves Michael is waiting for so that they can heal, and get some closure. Michael doesn't care, but we do! We've had to wait for SO LONG for justice, but finally the end is in sight.
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Post by GiveInToMe on Jan 9, 2010 11:21:23 GMT -5
What do we get out of reading about Murray and how Michael died? We won't get Michael back, it's not the way to heal our grief, and it doesn't make justice for Michael either. Ida, I totally agree with you regarding our way to heal our grief.....it won't be like that...to heal ourselves we need to grow our spirits and learn to live with love, compassion and forgiveness....I really don't care what they do to that doctor. I'm learning that even people like him are a blessing cause somehow they teach us something. Besides, I don't know him enough to judge him (and even if I did, I still have no right to do so). For some, it might be necessary to see "justice" in order to heal themselves.....If that's the case, and that's what they need to heal....that's good In my case I don't see a point of holding anger in my heart....I have done it before and I've come to learn that it doesn't suit me, heal me or help me in any way.....but that's my personal opinion and experience.... Love, G.
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Post by dadgoneitbaby on Jan 9, 2010 22:12:19 GMT -5
If it truly was Mike’s time to leave his body, then another means of his death would have served as well. But perhaps there were other messages that need to be relayed (say, about sleep disorders or inappropriate use of medications), and the means of Mike’s death was a vehicle for conveying those messages. As always, wasn’t he about bringing light and awareness to the world?
As an individual, my spiritual course is to work through my immediate grief and anger about Mike’s death, and to be forgiving to those who may have contributed to causing it. If a crime (seemingly criminal neglect) was the cause, then as a member of the community, I have a right as a loving person to desire that the community be protected from further negligence, and to want by that punishment to remind others in the medical professions that their sacred trust requires constant attention and diligence.
There is a difference between justice and vengeance. When crimes have been committed, justice is about defending and protecting the community and preventing repetition by warning others that a behavior is not acceptable because it hurts people. Vengeance is about harming and humiliating a wrongdoer out of anger and retaliation.
Because I care about the community, if Dr. Murray harmed Mike, then I want him to be justly punished. But personally, I have compassion and forgiveness for him and hope that he also learns Mike’s message of transcendent love. These are not contradictory, but reflect the complexity of my human roles.
May peace be upon us all.
-dgib
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Post by Melissa on Jan 10, 2010 2:35:19 GMT -5
dgib ... you expressed that very eloquently. I completely agree. Like Ida, I have found that focussing any attention on Murray, potential charges, and images of Michael dying in bed are not helpful to me and don't serve any purpose in my journey toward healing and acceptance.
However, what dgib said about criminal neglience and the lessons to be learned surrounding addiction to pain medications and sedatives can perhaps serve as a warning or deterrant for others. In this way, even his death will help people and perhaps prevent similar tragedies.
Peace indeed ... and (dare I say it?) some form of compassion for Murray. It must be quite the brand to wear, much as I feel he deserves to wear it and endure the consequences.
Peace to you all indeed.
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Post by MaryAnn Layton on Jan 11, 2010 11:23:14 GMT -5
I agree with both of you. I don't hate Dr. Murray and do somewhat feel sorry for him, but what he did is not something we can forget. His punishment, whatever it ends up being, will send a clear message to the medical community.
He died for the biggest reason of all... to bring us together to share our love. There is no greater gift.
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Post by alijoy on Jan 11, 2010 19:26:07 GMT -5
I'm really impressed at the compassion that is being showed to Murray. I have to say that I'm not there & I don't really think I ever will be. I believe that everyone's death serves some purpose & Michael's was to allow so many people to come together who wouldn't have otherwise, in order to continue the work that he started. However, I also know that there's no logical way any death occurred this way. I've heard that forgiveness is for the person who forgives & not the person being forgiven. For that reason, I do forgive Murray. Michael is not the 1st celebrity to die because the medical profession doesn't do it's job. Countless 'average' people die this way every day. It's been happening for years. To believe that anything will ever be done to keep it from happening again I would need evidence of some kind that something was actually being done & it wasn't just getting talked about. I saw Deepak Chopra on a TV show not long ago & he was asked if he thought anyone should go to jail for Michael's death. He said that he thought that people should go to prison as a deterrent from it happening in the future. I would say I have to agree. As long as the medical profession continues to go without punishment, it's very likely that more people will die like this.
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Post by MaryAnn Layton on Jan 30, 2010 11:35:43 GMT -5
Dr. Murray should definitely be punished with a prison term. If that doesn't happen, it will be a travesty for justice. But I have a good feeling that justice will be served.
I just heard that finally, Dr. Murray will be charged as early as this week, likely with involuntary manslaughter. That means unintentional death due to reckless conduct.
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Post by catharina59 on Feb 4, 2010 12:47:56 GMT -5
In some of the channelling by Nut, Michael said that Murray was confused; MJ was always with great compassion for all of us making mistakes; read the peom"look again , baby seal" therefor he is the greatest example of how to behave, like Jesus : when someone slaps you on the cheek, turn him over the second cheek; only God may judge us. and whereas we are a piece of God, we only can judge when we have a higher spirituel state, and I think that then we judge like Jesus or like Michael alongh his life. Love you all! www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmUSvlM5BCgwww.youtube.com/watch?v=mAN_ykzXzoM
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Post by jacque on Feb 5, 2010 3:57:00 GMT -5
Dear everyone - I read another message from Inner Michael and hope this will help us get through this time of stress over the indictment of Dr. Conrad Murray, as it brings our pain once again to the forefront. Be blessed and be a blessing to others! Inner Michael Messages People have written to ask: How do I once again, deal with the pain of media hype that is likely to surround the arrest and potential indictment of Dr. Conrad Murray for the death of Michael Jackson? I say don't deal with it, SHIFT IT! Here are some suggestions: Create an Altar: Set up a small altar in a private space in your home. It can be something as simple as a cardboard box with a scarf as an altar cloth. This altar will be a holy and consecrated space for dignity, integrity, authenticity, and the truth. Create a ritual to consecrate this holy space to support those honorable qualities to be expressed in the world. Place objects on the altar that represent people and things that you want to hold in that sacred vibration. Add pictures, objects, words, a globe of the world, or whatever represents truth, beauty and compassion as well as your desire to see truth and beauty in humans and in the world. Place a candle on the altar and ritually light that candle while at the same time igniting your intention for truth, beauty and compassion to find expression and to manifest in reality. Hold truth, beauty and compassion in your heart and also the intention for compassion, truth and beauty to prevail. Visit this altar daily and spend a few moments intention-ing truth and beauty and light the candle again. Repetition and intention sets up a vibration, a resonance. Then send that vibration across the planet with a wish for all beings to exercise truth, beauty and compassion. This is very powerful and if we multiply it by many, the power is exponentially increased. Know that this is no small thing you do for Michael and for the world. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Remember to: Breathe deeply and evenly! Breathe the situation and breathe through the situation. When something comes on TV or radio or news media about the case do this immediately: See as God sees; know as God knows: Immediately see the situation as ending positively. See all parties gaining spiritual knowledge and strength from the outcome. See the situation resolved in the service of love and light. Surround Michael and his legacy, however you envision that with pure light and love. Pray for resolution for the highest good of all concerned, for humanity and for the planet. Ask the angels to intervene. Know in your heart that that a dishonorable approach comes from fear, woundedness and lack of love. Know that people who are self actualized do not need drama for stimulation. People who need drama are lacking self esteem and confidence in their own creation abilities. They often feel helpless to impact their own lives and futures. Have compassion for their neediness but be firm in your demand and desire for truth to prevail. Always, always shift shadow by changing the outlook in your mind. See the positive outcome. Then FEEL the FEELINGS of the new outcome. The FEELING part cannot be emphasized enough. If you make contact with media: Angry response serves to contract people further and stifle communication. Appeal to their sense of ethics, propriety, fairness. Some part of them feels uneasy about what they are doing. People whistle through graveyards for good reason. Remind them there are tender grieving children involved. And here is another suggestion and offer: I am willing to hold a conference call for anyone who is interested in a journey and ritual to shift the shadow surrounding Michael, his legacy and the situation unfolding now. I am not able to do this immediately but will aim for the beginning of next week. If this interests you, please send a message to: innermichael@gmail.com and put "Yes" in the subject line. If you have comments, please make them short. If enough people are interested, I will make myself available to lead a journey and meditation to heal the shadow. Respond by early Saturday afternoon please. If there are enough people to create a healing circle, I will send guidelines for preparation and the contact number Be sure to use this email address: innermichael@gmail.com Blessings and Peace, Rev. B "One Wordsmith" at Inner Michael Resources: www.innermichael.com
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Post by jacque on Feb 5, 2010 4:24:27 GMT -5
I agree with what all of you have said here - Mal, GiveIn, Ida, Norma, Catharina, dgib, and Melissa.
I believe justice needs to be served so that the medical community is held more accountable for its actions in the future. I believe that in Michael's "chosen" method of dying, he was sending a message about the dangers of sleep disorders, the dangers of addiction to pain medications, the dangers of inappropriate medicating, and the need for changes within our medical community. I hope justice will be served so that Michael's death will not have been in vain (with respect to how he died).
However, since Michael's passing and hearing his messages through this forum, I know that he only feels compassion, love and forgiveness for Dr. Murray. What Dr. Murray did was obviously unintentional, although certainly reckless negligence. I pray that we can all come to terms with how Mike died and find it in our hearts to show some compassion for Dr. Murray, difficult as that may be. This is the only way to bring more love into the world, which is one of Mike's legacies. More feelings of hate, anger and a desire for vengeance will not serve us well here.
dgib, you expressed it very well:
"Because I care about the community, if Dr. Murray harmed Mike, then I want him to be justly punished. But personally, I have compassion and forgiveness for him and hope that he also learns Mike’s message of transcendent love."
Peace and love to all of you! Jacque
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Post by MaryAnn Layton on Feb 6, 2010 3:27:25 GMT -5
Thanks for your thoughts, Jacque, and for posting the article from the Reverend. I'm not yet ready to forgive Dr. Murray. I don't hate him and understand it was his fate, to be the one that caused Michael's death. But the grief and the pain are still too fresh for me. Especially now with all the talk of his upcoming arrainment on Monday, and all the new media reports aired on Friday mentioning inconsistencies with the doctor's story the day Michael died. From what we learned so far, two of them are: - toxicology findings do not jibe with what the doctor said he gave Michael - the doctor may have lied about the time frame between when he found Michael unresponsive and when 911 was called And he didn't tell the paramedics or the doctors at the hospital what was in Michael's system. By the way, Tom Mesereau was on Issues with Jane Velez-Mitchell yesterday, and he explained that the doctor won't be charged with second degree murder, only because the DA and LAPD want to make sure the doctor is found guilty. In other words, they don't have a strong enough case for second degree murder, but they do have a strong case for involuntary manslaughter. Unfortunately, the most that the doctor could get if convicted is 4 years in prison, but much less with good behavior. This week, Dr. Murray was also caught by the paparazzi visiting Michael's mausoleum, which I personally think is disgusting. Whether he did it to garner public sympathy or to sincerely pay his respects, he has no right to show up there. What a slap in the face to Michael's family! Jermaine was also on Entertainment Tonight yesterday and expressed his frustration at the whole mess. It was so heartbreaking to watch him... at this point, he seems not to care what the outcome ends up being because he said it won't bring Michael back Please comment on the above... do you agree or disagree?
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Post by Norma on Feb 6, 2010 15:17:59 GMT -5
I wasn't so sure I wanted to post this...I know that alot of you don't agree with my feelings about this person... I know that in my heart Mike has found forgiveness for this person but I just can't find it in mine... I feel that I have to keep this anger in my heart just alittle bit longer so that I can have that fight to have justice for Mike...If I lose this anger I feel that I will forget and I am not ready to do that right now...I hope you all understand where I am coming from... I am sure that you are all aware that this person went and tryed to visit Mike on the 3rd of this month... He brought himself a camera crew and filmed his visit... This angers me to no end... The fans that went to visit Mike that day had no idea that he was there...They were on the other side where Mike is... At the time he was to of walked that way towards them they were all watching the guards carrying the gifts in... Lisa has a blog and wrote what she thinks happened... Dang, girls I just can't forgive this piece of walking crap... I just can't...I wished that the fans would of seen him...He would of been running for his life...lol I am sure he saw the crowd and the cars...he had to of if he walked up as far as the arches...No wonder he left in a hurry... It would of been priceless to read the headlines the next day... "Dr.MURder hospitalized after a group of Michael Jackson fans critically injured the soon to be charged physician in front of Michael Jackson's resting place." I am sooooooo glad that the fans where there to not let this person get to Mike a second time... They were meant to be there... Thank God... The girls are going down to the courthouse Monday if anyone is close by and wants to join them... They are going to do it peacefully and calmly but they just want to show their support for Mike... Plus, I told them all that they had to stay out of trouble...cuz I don't have enough bail money for them all lol... I know that one day I will find it in my heart to except what happened to Mike...but until then I will try and keep my opinions to myself... Here is Lisa's article... lisaburks.typepad.com/gravehunting/2010/02/conradmurrayflg.html
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Post by MaryAnn Layton on Feb 6, 2010 15:40:03 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Norma. We don't blame you one bit for feeling the way you do. You are always welcome to rant here I'm so grateful your group was there visiting Michael so that the doctor couldn't get any closer! He has NO business being there!
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Post by Norma on Feb 6, 2010 17:57:34 GMT -5
Thank you MaryAnn that means alot to me that you said that... I really am not a person who loves to rant...but when I feel so passionate about something I just have a big time trying to shut up lol... I saw a clip on TMZ live that was really interesting explaining the fued between LAPD and the DA and why things have come to a hault... I am not a fan of TMZ but what they were saying really made it clear to me...and if that is the case...then I am glad that the LAPD are making sure that all their eggs are in one basket... When I find it I will share... They were also saying that when this goes to trial that Prince will probably called to the witness stand...because Dr.MURder called him upstairs that day...Man, I hope that that doesn't happen...I am hoping that they will not put that child through that...I am hoping that they could do it on tape some how... Here is an interview with Jermaine... www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7qsoMFiWo0
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Post by MaryAnn Layton on Feb 7, 2010 4:56:26 GMT -5
It's okay you're passionate about this, Norma. So am I. I try to be objective though, looking at both sides.
About TMZ, I've been watching TMZ Live too because they seem to always have the scoop first, since they have lots of sources on the inside (the LAPD and the DA's office). I think they are wrong about Prince being involved though. I seem to recall it was later learned that Prince never did go upstairs. That was wrongly reported at the beginning, but the cook had said that no one went upstairs except for one security guard, the one who eventually called 911.
The children, the cook and other staff stayed in the kitchen and prayed. That is what I believe happened.
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Post by MaryAnn Layton on Feb 8, 2010 13:55:06 GMT -5
It's very early yet but right this minute, TMZ is shooting a live feed from in front of the LA courthouse, showing the hundreds of reporters from all over the world waiting around, and the fans that have gathered directly across from the building, holding a HUGE white banner that reads: King of Pop Michael Jackson Gone Too Soon Another small sign reads "The world wants justice for Michael." When I saw that, I started sobbing. It must be the California group that regularly visits his mausoleum! I am definitely with them in spirit! Dr. Murray should be showing up around 3:30 p.m. CST... check out the live feed at www.tmz.com
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Post by dadgoneitbaby on Feb 9, 2010 3:31:19 GMT -5
Hi Norma –
I’m a relative late-comer and don’t post frequently, so I hope you don’t mind my speaking up about this.
Everyone on this forum is on the same journey together, a journey that Michael called us to take. This is a journey of changing ourselves into more loving people and using our love to change the world. One part of our journey is also about restoring the good name of Michael Jackson in the world at large. This is a journey, it’s not a race.
I’ve traveled with groups several times; we all had the same objective, but along the way some of us lingered at some of the stops longer than others. On my first trip to Israel, I was the one who would NOT climb up on a camel for a ride. On the other hand, while most of our group ate in the hotels where there was some semblance of American food, three of us searched for cafes where we could feast on oranges, falafels and hummus. But when we arrived at the shrines, we all prayed together and were glad for our company.
My point is that there is no reason for anyone to disagree with your opinion about Dr. Murray. Everyone here is at some stage of dismay at what he did. I expressed that I have compassion for him, but that doesn’t also mean that his negligence hasn’t caused me grief and anger. My forgiveness of him may not be as complete as some of the others have shown, and I sure wish he would show a little sincere contrition. But I’ll get there, and so will you. It’s not a race, it’s a journey.
Your posts show so much love and passion, and you not only know what road we’re all traveling down, but have often been out there pointing the way.
Peace to us all -dgib
P.S. – If we want to talk about anger, don’t get me started on the role of the media in Mike’s life. A wise person once said that you can only kill a man once with a sword of steel, but you can kill him a thousand times with the sword of the tongue – or in these days, the “tongues” of tabloid media. Oops…I’d better wish for peace again.
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Post by MaryAnn Layton on Feb 10, 2010 13:29:27 GMT -5
dgib, thanks for your comments! You're so right that we're all on this journey together, and that it's not a race. It will take much more time for all of us to reach the ultimate destination, but some may never even get there, and that's okay. Because we're all different, we will all feel differently to some extent.
We all agree the tabloid media were unfairly out to get Michael because of the business they're in, to profit from the "story." But over the months, I've noticed more compassion, more understanding and a lot less name calling. I see alot of their hardened hearts have turned softer towards him. It could be too, that they saw the massive impact of his passing on his millions of fans. They see it's no longer "kosher" to bash him... so rather than alienate his millions of fans, they purposely only report the facts now and refrain from adding their personal judgements.
Whatever their reasons, I just hope they continue to take the high road. It's still up to us, those of us who truly know who Michael was, to continue spreading the truth because the whole world needs to know!
Namaste,
Mal
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Post by Norma on Feb 10, 2010 21:35:34 GMT -5
Here is a clip of the fans at the court house... Erin is talking at 0:57 she is one of the MJFC... Heidi is Erin's sister 3:23 More of the girls at 3:18... Erin and Antoinette got to go into the court room...Antoinette said that she never thought that she would ever see Mike's killer in the eyes... She said she saw no remorse or saddness... Just FEAR... They were sitting across from Jermaine and his wife... I tell you these gals are awesome lol... They should be hired by the family's lawyer to dig up evidence... I am sure them and Lisa would find some dirt lol... www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-QvM2eFGX0
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Post by dadgoneitbaby on Mar 23, 2010 23:21:45 GMT -5
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